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	<title>Comments on: Landmarks, of sorts.</title>
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	<link>https://braid-game.com/news/2007/09/landmarks-of-sorts/</link>
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		<title>By: Matteo</title>
		<link>https://braid-game.com/news/2007/09/landmarks-of-sorts/#comment-4885</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matteo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 05:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://braid-game.com/news/?p=109#comment-4885</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rapture in Bioshock (the view of the tower that stands alone in the middle of the ocean in the first minute of the game is impressive), the Halo structure in, well...Halo. I liked the first game better then the sequels exactly becuase of that. It reminded a sci-fi book i loved as a child with possibile views of future space colonies. The Halo structure was very similar. I loved how you have no line of horizon in most of the game since it bends to form a cicle. And if you look on the side, you see just the stars. Inspired design.
Ironforge is easily the best thing in World of Worcraft.
The islands in Monkey Island are easily recognizable.
The house/dojo of Ryo in Shenmue.
I could go on and on. There&#039;s several.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rapture in Bioshock (the view of the tower that stands alone in the middle of the ocean in the first minute of the game is impressive), the Halo structure in, well&#8230;Halo. I liked the first game better then the sequels exactly becuase of that. It reminded a sci-fi book i loved as a child with possibile views of future space colonies. The Halo structure was very similar. I loved how you have no line of horizon in most of the game since it bends to form a cicle. And if you look on the side, you see just the stars. Inspired design.<br />
Ironforge is easily the best thing in World of Worcraft.<br />
The islands in Monkey Island are easily recognizable.<br />
The house/dojo of Ryo in Shenmue.<br />
I could go on and on. There&#8217;s several.</p>
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		<title>By: Gilla</title>
		<link>https://braid-game.com/news/2007/09/landmarks-of-sorts/#comment-3675</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gilla]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://braid-game.com/news/?p=109#comment-3675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would have to say the bridge in Twilight Princess where u fight that king guy thing is pretty epic]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have to say the bridge in Twilight Princess where u fight that king guy thing is pretty epic</p>
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		<title>By: Wombat</title>
		<link>https://braid-game.com/news/2007/09/landmarks-of-sorts/#comment-871</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wombat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://braid-game.com/news/?p=109#comment-871</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The concept of Landmark Moments are an idea that has been around for a while, and is often a key element of the best games. Thinking about that surprising moment when the giant foot smashes down on Kratos in GoW. Thats something that you can talk about with your friends for a long time afterward. I tell my teams that each location needs to have something unique in gameplay and look that is clear enough for a player to convey by saying &quot;hey, did you reach the part where...&quot;. Thats a landmark. 
When you take a road trip, 99% of the trip is non-remarkable. The things you remember are the unique experiences. This works well for games if you plan for it, as most of the gameworld can be repeatable instances with a few well chosen unique things for the player to focus on and remember.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The concept of Landmark Moments are an idea that has been around for a while, and is often a key element of the best games. Thinking about that surprising moment when the giant foot smashes down on Kratos in GoW. Thats something that you can talk about with your friends for a long time afterward. I tell my teams that each location needs to have something unique in gameplay and look that is clear enough for a player to convey by saying &#8220;hey, did you reach the part where&#8230;&#8221;. Thats a landmark.<br />
When you take a road trip, 99% of the trip is non-remarkable. The things you remember are the unique experiences. This works well for games if you plan for it, as most of the gameworld can be repeatable instances with a few well chosen unique things for the player to focus on and remember.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>https://braid-game.com/news/2007/09/landmarks-of-sorts/#comment-828</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 04:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://braid-game.com/news/?p=109#comment-828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[great article! i couldn&#039;t agree more. unfortunately, _visual_ variety seems to be more important these days than _interactive_ variety.

i think the original DOOM games were great examples of interactive variety, even tho almost every level looks the same (same textures and what not). i still remember maps like &quot;Phobos Anomaly&quot; from Doom1 (with the barrels at the beginning...then the bridge to horrifying twin barons)...and from Doom 2, &quot;Barrels of Fun&quot;, &quot;Tricks and Traps&quot;, &quot;Gauntlet&quot;, and &quot;Sewers&quot;..and some others i can&#039;t remember by name. each of those maps had pretty unique personality in their lay out and monster placement. hard to find in modern FPS&#039;s...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great article! i couldn&#8217;t agree more. unfortunately, _visual_ variety seems to be more important these days than _interactive_ variety.</p>
<p>i think the original DOOM games were great examples of interactive variety, even tho almost every level looks the same (same textures and what not). i still remember maps like &#8220;Phobos Anomaly&#8221; from Doom1 (with the barrels at the beginning&#8230;then the bridge to horrifying twin barons)&#8230;and from Doom 2, &#8220;Barrels of Fun&#8221;, &#8220;Tricks and Traps&#8221;, &#8220;Gauntlet&#8221;, and &#8220;Sewers&#8221;..and some others i can&#8217;t remember by name. each of those maps had pretty unique personality in their lay out and monster placement. hard to find in modern FPS&#8217;s&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John O'Kane</title>
		<link>https://braid-game.com/news/2007/09/landmarks-of-sorts/#comment-826</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John O'Kane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 23:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://braid-game.com/news/?p=109#comment-826</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The only really good example I&#039;ve seen here is the first level of mario or on line multi-player maps and that&#039;s because people have experienced them enough to be etched in their heads. They are not memorable land marks on first experience, so not much of a landmark by any interpretation. That&#039;s not to say I don&#039;t think they are good game play and worth remembering, it&#039;s just that we need to be considering different words such as &quot;seminal&quot; or &quot;just bloody good&quot; etc. There are reasons why people in games don&#039;t talk like people in movies at the end of the day.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only really good example I&#8217;ve seen here is the first level of mario or on line multi-player maps and that&#8217;s because people have experienced them enough to be etched in their heads. They are not memorable land marks on first experience, so not much of a landmark by any interpretation. That&#8217;s not to say I don&#8217;t think they are good game play and worth remembering, it&#8217;s just that we need to be considering different words such as &#8220;seminal&#8221; or &#8220;just bloody good&#8221; etc. There are reasons why people in games don&#8217;t talk like people in movies at the end of the day.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Nelson</title>
		<link>https://braid-game.com/news/2007/09/landmarks-of-sorts/#comment-816</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Nelson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://braid-game.com/news/?p=109#comment-816</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JP,

You&#039;re right about GTA. That was a probably a poor example on my part.

In Doom I, I do remember now going back and forth across some of the maps, but still very uninteresting from a landmark point of view. Part of the puzzle seemed to be to find your way through a maze of similar corridors and rooms.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JP,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right about GTA. That was a probably a poor example on my part.</p>
<p>In Doom I, I do remember now going back and forth across some of the maps, but still very uninteresting from a landmark point of view. Part of the puzzle seemed to be to find your way through a maze of similar corridors and rooms.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>https://braid-game.com/news/2007/09/landmarks-of-sorts/#comment-815</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://braid-game.com/news/?p=109#comment-815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If you’re playing in a GTA game or Doom and such you are just zooming through locations and not really exploring them.&quot;

GTA, not so much.  In the course of a typical play session you crisscross older routes quite frequently.  Most of the people I know who&#039;ve played those games develop a decent mental map of the cities.

And actually Doom1&#038;2s&#039; levels are less linear than you may remember.  They&#039;re kind of like more complex versions of Tempest levels to me, variously-shaped prisms for the core mechanics.

The modern games that really defeat landmark formation are linear, single-player FPS games where every environment is just a tunnel of scripted sequences.  You get to the end of the current tunnel and never look back, so all the layouts and flow of the spaces slide out of your brain like teflon.  That there are so many such games on the market today probably goes a ways towards explaining the lack lamented in the original article.

Valve did a good job establishing the HL2 citadel as a persistent visual landmark, but it&#039;s always just skybox - there&#039;s never a point where you move right up to it in contiguous physical space like you can walk up to a particular building in a real downtown city area.  So it&#039;s not a landmark to me in any of the ways that various buildings here in Boston are.

In a sense, a game landmark is only a landmark if you have enough agency in the space to situate yourself relative to it.  Multiplayer maps have it easy in that regard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you’re playing in a GTA game or Doom and such you are just zooming through locations and not really exploring them.&#8221;</p>
<p>GTA, not so much.  In the course of a typical play session you crisscross older routes quite frequently.  Most of the people I know who&#8217;ve played those games develop a decent mental map of the cities.</p>
<p>And actually Doom1&amp;2s&#8217; levels are less linear than you may remember.  They&#8217;re kind of like more complex versions of Tempest levels to me, variously-shaped prisms for the core mechanics.</p>
<p>The modern games that really defeat landmark formation are linear, single-player FPS games where every environment is just a tunnel of scripted sequences.  You get to the end of the current tunnel and never look back, so all the layouts and flow of the spaces slide out of your brain like teflon.  That there are so many such games on the market today probably goes a ways towards explaining the lack lamented in the original article.</p>
<p>Valve did a good job establishing the HL2 citadel as a persistent visual landmark, but it&#8217;s always just skybox &#8211; there&#8217;s never a point where you move right up to it in contiguous physical space like you can walk up to a particular building in a real downtown city area.  So it&#8217;s not a landmark to me in any of the ways that various buildings here in Boston are.</p>
<p>In a sense, a game landmark is only a landmark if you have enough agency in the space to situate yourself relative to it.  Multiplayer maps have it easy in that regard.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Nelson</title>
		<link>https://braid-game.com/news/2007/09/landmarks-of-sorts/#comment-814</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Nelson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://braid-game.com/news/?p=109#comment-814</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thinking way back to Atari 2600, those are some of the most ingrained locations in my mind. Combat&#039;s complex tank map, Yars Revenge&#039;s Neutral Zone, Adventure (Yellow Castle and the red &#038; grey catacombs), Pitfall 2 to name a few. Even simple ones like Circus Atari and Kaboom! evoke rich memories and emotions for me. In those old games you usually spend so much time in a single location that can hold more feelings of gameplay. 

That&#039;s sort of missing from a lot of modern games. If you&#039;re playing in a GTA game or Doom and such you are just zooming through locations and not really exploring them. I was just playing Saint&#039;s Row again and was struck buy how beautiful some of the locations are in that game. I was thinking, um, why didn&#039;t I notice how cool this looks before? I mean, I think I sorta noticed it from the screenshots before but while playing it I was so busy following the path on the radar or shooting enemies that it was mostly lost on me at the time. All the gameplay overshadowed the locations so there is no concrete sense of space. It just all became something like &quot;you got to go about half-away across the city to location B to gun down so-and-so of such-and-such gang&quot; in my mind. 

If you spend a lot of time in one location you start to notice how the location itself can help in your gameplay goals. That&#039;s one reason that de_dust is such a great example of a location. In order to play that map well you have to know that map well because that&#039;s the first thing that players will exploit usually.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thinking way back to Atari 2600, those are some of the most ingrained locations in my mind. Combat&#8217;s complex tank map, Yars Revenge&#8217;s Neutral Zone, Adventure (Yellow Castle and the red &amp; grey catacombs), Pitfall 2 to name a few. Even simple ones like Circus Atari and Kaboom! evoke rich memories and emotions for me. In those old games you usually spend so much time in a single location that can hold more feelings of gameplay. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s sort of missing from a lot of modern games. If you&#8217;re playing in a GTA game or Doom and such you are just zooming through locations and not really exploring them. I was just playing Saint&#8217;s Row again and was struck buy how beautiful some of the locations are in that game. I was thinking, um, why didn&#8217;t I notice how cool this looks before? I mean, I think I sorta noticed it from the screenshots before but while playing it I was so busy following the path on the radar or shooting enemies that it was mostly lost on me at the time. All the gameplay overshadowed the locations so there is no concrete sense of space. It just all became something like &#8220;you got to go about half-away across the city to location B to gun down so-and-so of such-and-such gang&#8221; in my mind. </p>
<p>If you spend a lot of time in one location you start to notice how the location itself can help in your gameplay goals. That&#8217;s one reason that de_dust is such a great example of a location. In order to play that map well you have to know that map well because that&#8217;s the first thing that players will exploit usually.</p>
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		<title>By: BIOJO</title>
		<link>https://braid-game.com/news/2007/09/landmarks-of-sorts/#comment-813</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BIOJO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://braid-game.com/news/?p=109#comment-813</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Zanzibar Halo map made out of Lego! That&#039;s a landmark...


http://n4g.com/gaming/News-72122.aspx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zanzibar Halo map made out of Lego! That&#8217;s a landmark&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://n4g.com/gaming/News-72122.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://n4g.com/gaming/News-72122.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Blow</title>
		<link>https://braid-game.com/news/2007/09/landmarks-of-sorts/#comment-811</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan Blow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://braid-game.com/news/?p=109#comment-811</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In particular about the Citadel; the thought that comes to mind is that it isn&#039;t much of a landmark for me, because the gameplay once you get inside is not very different from when you were outside, so it just blurs together into the rest of the game.  (Yeah, the ending sequence is pretty different, but that is just a portion of the Citadel stuff, especially if you add Episode 1; and it still isn&#039;t really *that* distinctive).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In particular about the Citadel; the thought that comes to mind is that it isn&#8217;t much of a landmark for me, because the gameplay once you get inside is not very different from when you were outside, so it just blurs together into the rest of the game.  (Yeah, the ending sequence is pretty different, but that is just a portion of the Citadel stuff, especially if you add Episode 1; and it still isn&#8217;t really *that* distinctive).</p>
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